This morning I met the “QAnon Shaman,” and here are ten takeaways from our conversation

Jacob Chansley. Photo: Johnny Silvercloud/shutterstock.com

This morning, I met Jacob Chansley, who also goes by Jake Angeli. If you don’t recognize those names, you probably know him as the “QAnon Shaman.” As I was walking across the campus where I work, I spotted a man decked out in flag-covered clothes, wearing a large and colorful Native American headdress. He was holding a massive, hand-lettered sign that read: “TRUMP IS A RAPIST. TRUMP IS A PEDOPHILE. TRUMP IS ALL OVER THE EPSTEIN FILES.” I immediately thought, is that who I think it is? I’ve studied him, as part of my academic research on QAnon and conspiracy theories more broadly, and have written about him many times here at Boing Boing — but could this possibly be happening in real life? I approached him and asked: “Are you Jacob Chansley?” He said that yes, he was. “Are you really him? The QAnon Shaman?” And he said, again, that he was. So I told him I’ve been following his work for some time, researching him, QAnon, and conspiracy theories, and asked if he had some time to chat. “Absolutely!,” he answered. So I sat on a bench with him for the next hour or so and asked him all kinds of questions. Here are ten takeaways from our conversation:

1. He’s never actually called himself “QAnon Shaman.” He explained that, rather, he was labeled as such by the news media after that famous photo of him, face and body painted red, white, and blue, wearing a fur headdress with buffalo horns, and screaming into the sky, exploded through popular culture after the January 6, 2021 U.S. Capitol attack, where he was front and center. He thinks the media, the MAGA movement, the Trump regime, and even QAnon used the label and the image to dismiss him as a joke or a ‘crazy person’ so nobody would have to take his ideas seriously. He now calls himself “America’s Shaman.”

2. He just published a new book. It’s called “Shamanic Apocalypse.” He loaned me a copy. On the back cover, he writes: “You want the Truth? The Truth is always stranger than fiction. Shaman is a Siberian term and it means The One Who Knows. Apocalypse is a Greek term and it means a Revelation of Truth. The Shamanic Apocalypse is when The One Who Knows Reveals Truth.”

3. It’s worth reiterating that he is now a vocal critic of Trump. He says in his new book, “I disavowed Trump after his clear betrayal of the American people in favor of Israel and Epstein’s clients.” While I sat chatting with him, many people approached him to tell him they liked his sign, to get selfies with him, or to chat. Some of the folks who approached were fans who had met him in the past at conservative gatherings such as those hosted by Turning Point USA. Some were clearly still Trump fans and weren’t thrilled about Jacob’s sign. When they expressed skepticism, Jake pulled out a giant binder stuffed with printouts from the Epstein files, and showed them email after email with proof that Trump is beyond implicated in the files.

4. I asked if he’d reached out to Marjorie Taylor Greene, since they have both turned against Trump and have become loud critics of the Trump regime’s cover-up of the Epstein files. He said absolutely not — he is not allied with MTG and in fact believes she is “controlled opposition,” and not to be trusted.

5. He told me he practices “heyoka shamanism,” which is a type of sacred clown shaman grounded in the Sioux culture. He used the metaphor of walking backwards through society, doing the opposite of what people expect in terms of politics, religion, and more. To me it sounded like he positions himself as holding a mirror up to society to reveal its absurdities, taking on the role of a jester, or a satirist who speaks the truth.

6. While I was chatting with him, a white women in her 60s approached him to tell him that it was offensive for him to be wearing the headdress, which she explained was sacred for Native Americans. And he answered that he actually wears it specifically because it’s sacred, and told her that he’s part Native American. This same woman was wearing a very large Aztec sun calendar necklace. So Jacob asked her, “Oh, are you Aztec?” She admitted that she wasn’t. When she walked away, the QAnon Shaman and I both chuckled about this. Just to be clear, I don’t think he should be wearing the headdress.

7. While he’s changed his tune about Trump, he’s still fully trafficking in anti-Semitic and racist conspiracy theories, specifically around “the Rothschilds” being “behind Ukraine, Israel, COVID,” and more. To be clear, I find this abhorrent.

8. He claims he was never actually a fan of Trump, per se. Rather, he explained that he aligned with the segment of the QAnon movement that rallied around “protecting the children,” which, of course, was still highly problematic. He explained that he only supported Trump insofar as Trump promised to keep children safe, and changed his mind about Trump when it became clear that Trump had lied about that.

9. His big passion is “environmental justice,” and has been for decades. What he means by that concept is vastly different than how I define it, however. He’s been trying to forward ideas about what he describes in his book as “classified” technologies like Zero-Point Energy Engines and Tesla Tower Technology, which, he writes, “harness energy from this micro-dimensional level of infinite energy.” This line of thought devolves quickly into anti-Semitic conspiracy theory, however.

10. He’s a strong critic of data centers, AI, Peter Thiel, Alex Karp, and the rest of the tech bro billionaires. I’m on board with critiquing these folks, but his analysis moves deeply into the metaphysical, spiritual, and conspiratorial realms, which is where I part ways.

In my conversation with Jacob, I was struck at how absolutely normal he comes across. He presents as smart, well-informed, and thoughtful. It was interesting to meet him in person after reading so much about him and studying QAnon and conspiracy theories and theorists more generally. While I fully condemn dangerous and destructive conspiracy theories and those who spread them, my research seeks, in part, to understand why people are drawn to them in the first place. For that reason, I’m glad I was able to chat with the QAnon Shaman himself. Like most conspiracy theorists, some of the things he says make some sense, but only to a certain point. And this is what makes them so seductive for so many people, and what creates such a dangerous and slippery slope from ‘trying to make sense of what’s happening around me’ to ‘just asking questions’ to full-blown anti-Semitic, racist, worldview.

I *am* glad that he’s openly stating that Trump is a rapist and a pedophile. If he can convince some QAnon or MAGA folks that they should no longer be following Trump, I count that as a good thing.